Twitter Tweets
My TweetsFollow on Facebook
Recent Comments
David Llewellyn Dodd… on The Pope’s New Bear… Fr Aidan Kimel on The Pope’s New Bear… Grant on The Pope’s New Bear… The Iron Knuckle on The Pope’s New Bear… David Llewellyn Dodd… on The Pope’s New Bear… Dee of St Hermans on The Pope’s New Bear… Charles McCann on The Pope’s New Bear… JBG on Roland, Rebirth, and Resurrect… David on The Pope’s New Bear… Matt Larimer on The Pope’s New Bear… -
Recent Posts
- The Pope’s New Beard
- Creation, Theodicy, and the Problem of Evil
- Is Universal Salvation Possible in Islam?
- “Each virtue is a gold and diamond step on the ladder of salvation, the ladder that unites earth and heaven, that stretches out from your own hell to your own paradise”
- Sergius Bulgakov on St Augustine and Predestination
Categories
- Alexander Earl
- Apostle Paul
- Aquinas
- Athanasius
- Basil of Caesarea
- Bible
- Book Reviews
- Brian Moore
- Byzantine theology
- Citations
- Cyril of Alexandria
- David B. Hart
- Dionysius the Areopagite
- Dumitru Staniloae
- Eschatology
- Fiction & Poetry
- Grace, Justification & Theosis
- Gregory Nazianzen
- Gregory of Nyssa
- Herbert McCabe & Friends
- Holy Trinity
- Hugh McCann
- Humor
- Inklings & Company
- Interesting Theologians
- Irenaeus
- Isaac the Syrian
- Islam
- John Stamps
- Jordan Wood
- Julian of Norwich
- Lamentation
- Liturgy & Sermons
- Mark Chenoweth
- Mythopoeia and story
- Nicholas Wolfterstorff
- Paul Griffiths
- Philosophical Theology
- Preaching
- Robert Fortuin
- Robert Jenson
- Sacraments
- Sergius Bulgakov
- Spirituality
- T. F. Torrance
- T. S. Eliot
- Theology
- Theotokos
- Tom Belt
- Uncategorized
- Vincent of Lérins
- Zizioulas & Yannaras
Archives
- April 2021
- March 2021
- February 2021
- January 2021
- December 2020
- November 2020
- October 2020
- September 2020
- August 2020
- July 2020
- June 2020
- May 2020
- April 2020
- March 2020
- February 2020
- January 2020
- December 2019
- November 2019
- October 2019
- September 2019
- August 2019
- July 2019
- June 2019
- May 2019
- April 2019
- March 2019
- February 2019
- January 2019
- December 2018
- November 2018
- October 2018
- September 2018
- August 2018
- July 2018
- June 2018
- May 2018
- April 2018
- March 2018
- February 2018
- January 2018
- December 2017
- November 2017
- October 2017
- September 2017
- August 2017
- July 2017
- June 2017
- May 2017
- April 2017
- March 2017
- February 2017
- January 2017
- December 2016
- November 2016
- October 2016
- September 2016
- August 2016
- July 2016
- June 2016
- May 2016
- April 2016
- March 2016
- February 2016
- January 2016
- December 2015
- November 2015
- October 2015
- September 2015
- August 2015
- July 2015
- June 2015
- May 2015
- April 2015
- March 2015
- February 2015
- January 2015
- December 2014
- November 2014
- October 2014
- September 2014
- August 2014
- July 2014
- June 2014
- May 2014
- April 2014
- March 2014
- February 2014
- January 2014
- December 2013
- November 2013
- October 2013
- September 2013
- August 2013
- July 2013
- June 2013
- May 2013
- April 2013
- March 2013
- February 2013
- January 2013
- December 2012
- November 2012
- October 2012
“God, Creation, and Evil” by David B. Hart
This entry was posted in David B. Hart. Bookmark the permalink.
I lament the lack of footnotes.
LikeLike
I’m sure that will be rectified when Hart (God willing) writes his book on the subject.
LikeLike
Continuing the thread of universalism, has there been much discussion — on this blog at least — of the seemingly bizarre notion that even the damned would be resurrected at the Final Judgement? To me, it makes no sense to share in Christ’s resurrected human nature while being separated from Him for all eternity in the flames of hell. There is made a distinction between resurrection unto glory and resurrection unto condemnation; but that seems to negate the actual substance of what it means to be resurrected! Thoughts?
LikeLike
That all will be resurrected, the righteous and the unrighteous, is most certainly the ecumenical faith of Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and mainline Protestantism.
LikeLike
Certainly! That wasn’t what I was getting at; rather, what is the point in the resurrection of the damned if hell is eternal? To share in Christ’s resurrection but to endure hell for all eternity seems bizarre, since resurrection is the conquering of sin and death.
LikeLike
Okay, gotcha! I suppose that your question really resolves into whether a convincing moral defense of eternal perdition can be advanced. If yes, then the resurrection of the wicked (which is restoration of the whole person) can be justified along those lines.
LikeLike
Yes, sorry for my confusing language. It seems that if hell is everlasting torment and those in it after the judgment have their “resurrected” bodies, then it seems we either posit two different kinds of resurrection or we must assign ‘resurrection’ to the sheep and ‘resuscitation’ to the goats. I just cannot see how a resurrected body — one in conformity to Christ’s own resurrected body — could experience the pain and agony of hell. It seems contradictory to the nature of the resurrection. Granted, I’m writing this without even consulting any theologians on the matter… it just popped into my stream of thought as I re-read DBH’s lecture. By the way, thank you, Fr. Aidan, for posting it; I’ve listened to the lecture several times during my commute, and it’s good to sit down and read it. Now…if only DBH himself would chime in!
LikeLike
Once again, DBH does not disappoint! (And, once again, I am having to read with my dictionary in hand!) 🙂
LikeLike
Even the Scribd dictionary couldn’t handle a few of these words 🙂
LikeLike
My old Webster’s didn’t have “indiscerptible”, but the online version did! Lol!
LikeLike
Thanks to Fr. Aidan and David Bentley Hart. Does St. Gregory of Nyssa include Lucifer and the other fallen angels among the rational wills that will ultimately be reconciled with God? If so, does that imply a finite, temporal aspect to hell?
LikeLike
John, I am fairly sure that St Gregory did entertain the eventual salvation of the demons, but I have not yet read his apokatastasis writings, so cannot say for certain. But I do know that St Isaac the Syrian envisioned the reconciliation of all rational creatures.
LikeLike
Thanks for posting this Father. You might consider adding this to your “Readings in Universalism” tab.
LikeLike
Excellent suggestion.
LikeLike
I think that DBH has a good feel for the tension that your average non-scholar churchgoer (like myself) experiences when working through these issues.
It gets to the very heart of why I’ve been having such a tough time at church of late. Most of the time I don’t want to go. At all.
On the one hand is this vision of divine power and goodness and eschatological hope that gives me strength to keep going in the belief that my loved ones are safe. On the other, the language of hell and irrevocable loss is so inextricably present on a typical Sunday – within the sermons, the theology, the songs, and the overall church ethos and purpose that I can’t NOT see it. In the community I’m a part of it’s usually subtle and sort of viewed with regret (free will theodicy of hell). But it’s always there, hovering powerfully just out of sight (or in plain view at times). And this language is placed squarely alongside the language of “love”, “justice”, “mercy” etc, in such a way that, when examined closely, the latter language is stripped of all substantive meaning. I walk out and can’t help thinking that, despite any well intentioned arguments to the contrary, the point of it all is just to “save as many souls as possible from God”. “Pluck as many infants as possible from the flames”. Horror.
This tension is just so extreme. It’s tough to live in it. It’s hard for what DBH says (and others) to take root when it’s so at odds with a typical Sunday narrative. I feel like a ping pong ball being volleyed back and forth. Like DBH says, this critique isn’t aimed at a few marginal sects within Christianity. It stems from the normal experience of the typical Christian in the broad mainstream.
Anyways. For those of you that are pastors/clergy, I’d ask you to keep these things in mind as you look out at your congregations.
LikeLike
Mike, if you don’t mind my asking, what sort of church do you attend? If it is Orthodox, is that your experience of the Divine Liturgy itself, as well?
Karen
LikeLike
Evangelical.
LikeLike
Thanks, Mike. If you lived in my area, I would invite you to attend the Divine Liturgy with me, especially the services of Holy Week and Pascha. This is the reason I moved from Evangelicalism to Orthodoxy–I had an experience of struggle with the doctrine of hell as it is understood in Evangelical circles very similar to that described below by Mattkofler.
Karen
LikeLike
It is, however, present in many Orthodox parishes as well. My priest recently started his sermon by saying “it is a dangerous thing to be an Orthodox Christian.”
LikeLike
I’m very grateful to Mr. Hart for all that he’s written over the years. His writings have helped me get through some very difficult times. I also credit him for being the one to push me over the brink into universalism. I happened to read his article on First Things, “Roland on Vaikuntha”, during a time of intense anguish brought on by my struggles with the traditional doctrine of hell. In all honesty, those struggles were so bad that I had to start taking anti-depressants/anti-anxiety medication. Reading Hart’s article convinced me conclusively that I couldn’t/shouldn’t simply move on and try to live my life despite the threat of hell looming over everything and everyone I love. Funny how such a seemingly light-hearted article could be so potent.
LikeLike