“And the Word of the Father is formed by the word of a mother, and the Creator is created by the voice of a creature”

Posted on 25 March 2016 by Fr Aidan Kimel
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8 Responses to “And the Word of the Father is formed by the word of a mother, and the Creator is created by the voice of a creature”

  1. davidirving301 says:
    26 March 2016 at 9:35 am

    Exalting Mary as “Mother of God”, is an error of Roman Catholic and other churches’ history. she called herself “the handmaiden of God” and “rejoiced in Christ, her Savior”. She should be rightly titled what she herself proclaimed, “Christ bearer”. There is only “one mediator between God and man–the “God Incarnate” and our “High Priest”–Jesus Christ. Mary is not somehow a part of the “Godhead”!

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    • Fr Aidan Kimel says:
      26 March 2016 at 9:46 am

      David, no informed Catholic or Orthodox Christian believes that Mary is “part of the ‘Godhead.'” If you’d like to know more about what Catholics and Orthodox believe about her, I’d be happy to direct you to appropriate resources.

      The discussion begins, must begin, with who one believes Jesus to be. If he is truly the eternal Son incarnate, as confessed by the Councils of Ephesus and Constantinople, then Mary is his mother. It’s as simple as that. She doesn’t have to be a member of the Trinity to be his mother. All she needs to be is the human being in whom the eternal Son assumed human nature.

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  2. davidirving301 says:
    26 March 2016 at 10:29 am

    The Holy Spirit conceived Jesus in Mary’s womb, a supernatural birth in every way. It was something like Adam having no father or mother, sinless, immortal, incorruptible, imperishable–before the Fall, with the exception that, of course Jesus was The Word of God taking on human flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit–totally supernatural! There is, I believe, reason to believe that both the ovum and sperm were placed in Mary’s womb uniting the Word with flesh–totally supernatural. The Scriptures don’t rule this out. God can do anything, even making Adam out of clay, immortal. The eternal differance, of course, is that the Eternal Word was clothed with flesh.

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    • 407kwac says:
      26 March 2016 at 10:33 pm

      David, your view presented here is simply not a fully biblical and orthodox view of Jesus Christ. What you suggest here is actually quite close to what the Docetists (an early heresy) claimed–that Christ was fully God only and Mary was only a channel through which the Word came into the world and that He had no sharing in her humanity. However, the Scriptures teach that the Messiah would be a (biological) descendant of King David. If Jesus did not have a share in Mary’s DNA, that would be manifestly false, since the witness of the Scriptures is clear that He had no human biological father. The NT witness is that Mary was the biological mother of Jesus, and so He took his humanity from her. In the early centuries, another heresy arose (Gnosticism) teaching that Jesus was a mere human (not divine) from birth and was deified only at His baptism by John in the Jordan when the Spirit descended on Him. (This would be very similar to considering Him an “ascended master” in the manner of Eastern religions like Hinduism or Buddhism–essentially making His humanity nothing but the material vessel to contain a god.) It was at this point the Church officially affirmed one of Mary’s titles as “Mother of God” to underscore the truth Jesus was also fully God from conception, so Mary’s womb contained God incarnate. In context of the historical issues in play at the time, this is what this title means. In no way did it ever mean, nor have Orthodox or Catholic Christians understood it to mean, that Mary was the mother of Christ’s Deity or a member of the Godhead!

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      • davidirving301 says:
        2 April 2016 at 11:46 am

        Why then did Jesus say, “For I say unto you, among those that are *born of women* there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist, but he that is * least in the Kingdom of God is greater than he is”? * (Luke 7:28) Obviously, Jesus–the only begotten Son of God, who came down from heaven to become the Word Incarnate–is the greatest in the Kingdom of God next to the Father. Notice also that Jesus always called Mary as “woman”, fulfilling the promise to Eve that “the Seed of the woman” (not of Adam, but the virgin-born prophesied Emnity/Christ) would be crushed and in turn crush the evil beneath His feet (referring to Christ’s atonement and victory over death and hell) [Genesis 3:15] The birth of Jesus was totally supernatural, conceived of the Holy Spirit! Mary was chosen to be what she called herself–the handmaiden of God. I agree that Joseph and Mary raised Jesus in his childhood, but all of Christ, including his flesh, was and is Diety-God Incarnate. Is there anything too hard for God to do? Does He need a man or woman’s help. In the title of this essay, it is claimed “that the Creator was created”–this is false and ludicrous to me and millions of other Christians. (p.s.–I’m not claiming that Jesus was not human like all of us–but super-human–proven by his many miracles and His resurrection from the dead)!

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        • Fr Aidan Kimel says:
          3 April 2016 at 10:14 am

          David, a fruitful discussion of the Blessed Virgin Mary requires mutual agreement on the identity of Jesus Christ, as defined by the ecumenical councils. It’s unclear to me that such agreement exists at this point. You appear to be claiming that the eternal Son did not assume human nature from Mary. If that is what you are saying (correct me if it’s not), then from all orthodox points of view (whether Orthodox, Catholic, or classical Protestant), this claim is wrong. Hence our discussion must begin not with Mary but with the doctrine of the Incarnation as historically expounded by the Church. I refer you to the dogmatic decree of the Council of Chalcedon.

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  3. davidirving301 says:
    3 April 2016 at 2:43 pm

    This homily by a “St. Nicholas” doesn’t seem to copy its content from the “Council of Chalcedon”. In his homily, Nicholas seems to state that Mary was a part of the Incarnation of Christ and she somehow mystically existed before the Creation. He uses such terms as, “Mary-The Mother Of God” throughout and seems to teach that it took Mary’s consent for the Holy Spirit to conceive “The Only Begotten-not made Jesus Christ” in her womb. Such teachings as this lead to the “perpetual virginity of Mary” or even that Mary was virgin-born, as I believe the Roman Catholic teaches, and calls it “the Holy Assumption”. All this is totally Un-Biblical. Nothing can convince me that Our Creator was ever created, if this is what you and your church teaches. Mary humbled herself and called herself only “the handmaiden of the Lord”, and she said, “I rejoice in God, my Savior” Mary didn’t state that she was the “Mother of God”. She, too, was saved by the child that she bore, along with all in Adam’s race that ultimately will be by Christ’s Atonement and Saving Grace.

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