Kronen and Reitan: An Argument from Divine Complacent Love

In their book God’s Final Victory, philosophers John Kronen and Eric Reitan present an argument for universal salvation based on the efficacious grace of God. They lay it out in five steps:

  1. It is always possible for God to extend to the unregenerate efficacious grace; that is, a form of grace sufficient by itself to guarantee their salvation (i.e. sufficient to bring about all that is necessary for salvation, including relevant subjective acts such as sincere repentance and conversion).
  2. Making use of efficacious grace to save the unregenerate is morally permissible for God, at least when the recipient would not otherwise have been saved.
  3. It is therefore possible and permissible for God to save all through the exercise of efficacious grace (1, 2).
  4. If God has a morally permissible means of saving all, then God will save all.
  5. Therefore, God will save all (3, 4).1

Does God have compelling reasons to save all? The cogency of premise #4 hinges on whether we are persuaded that the absolute love of God entails universal salvation. In our previous post we reviewed Kronen and Reitan’s Argument from Divine Benevolence: in this argument our two philosophers assert that God’s nature as absolute love provides an internal impelling cause for him to will what is best for every rational creature—and that best is nothing less than eternal union with the Holy Trinity. We will review their second argument, which they believe to be stronger and more compelling than the first. As we shall see, this second argument complements and fulfills the first.

An Argument from Divine Complacent Love

  1. Perfect complacent love is an essential divine attribute.
  2. If (1) then there is in God an internal impelling cause of’ His willing that every rational creature has the necessary prerequisites for achieving what it is naturally ordered to achieve.
  3. Therefore, there is in God an internal impelling cause of His willing that every rational creature has the necessary prerequisites for achieving what it is naturally ordered to achieve (1, 2).
  4. If (3) then—unless there is in God an attribute which could root in Him an internal impelling cause not to will that every rational creature has whatever is necessary for it to achieve what it is naturally ordered to achieve—God does will that every rational creature has these necessary prerequisites.
  5. There is no attribute in God which roots in Him an internal impelling cause not to will that every rational creature achieve what it is naturally ordered to achieve.
  6. Every rational creature is naturally ordered towards union with God.
  7. A necessary prerequisite for a rational creature to achieve union with God is that it experiences the beatific vision.
  8. Therefore, God wills that every rational creature experience the beatific vision (3, 4, 6, 7).
  9. If (8) then unless either: (a) it is metaphysically impossible for God to bring it about that every rational creature experiences the beatific vision, or (b) all the means God could use to achieve this are morally impermissible—every rational creature will experience that beatific vision.
  10. It is not metaphysically impossible for God to bring it about that every rational creature experiences the beatific vision, and there are some means God could use to do this that are morally permissible.
  11. Therefore, every rational creature will experience the beatific vision (8, 9, 10).
  12. Every creature that experiences the beatific vision is saved.
  13. Therefore, every rational creature is saved (11, 12).2

What is divine complacent love? The word complacent draws us up short. Webster’s defines complacency as “self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies.” Err . . . that can’t be right. Surely the God of the Christian faith is not complacent in that way. Obviously some other meaning must be intended.

The Latin word is complacentia: take pleasure in, take fancy to, capture the affections of. Medieval theologians adapted the word for their own purposes. St Thomas Aquinas, for example, used it to speak of love between two people—specifically, the recognition of and delight in the good that inheres in the other:

With respect to the appetitive power, the beloved is said to be in the lover by being in his affections through a certain complacentia: with the result that the lover either takes pleasure in the beloved or in the beloved’s good, if they are present; or if they are absent, by desire he tends toward the beloved, loving him with the love of concupiscence; or he tends toward the good that he wills for his beloved, loving him with the love of friendship. The lover acts this way not because of some extrinsic reason (as if he were desiring the beloved for the sake of another, or as if he were willing good for the beloved for the sake of something else) but because complacentia for the beloved is deeply rooted within him.3

Unlike agape, which bespeaks the pure giftedness of love (willing the good of the other), complacentia highlights the recognition of goodness in another person, which in turn evokes desire for and enjoyment of the beloved. “This affective affinity,” writes Michael Sherwin, “causes the lover to seek deeper union with the beloved and to act for the beloved’s good as if it were his own good.”4  We love the other because we perceive their intrinsic worth, beauty, and goodness, thus inflaming desire for union. The 19th century theologian M. J. Scheeben beautifully describes the deep meaning of complacentia:

This deeper concept of sanctity rests on this, that the proper life of the will in its innermost power and full energy does not merely consist in the will’s direction and ordination to or conformity with the objectively good and beautiful, a conformity that is the result of some sort of recognition of its value [that is, the value of the good and the beautiful], but in an affective union and fulfillment with it (or transformation into it) that appears in part as the root of the will’s ethical and practical recognition of the good and beautiful, or of its striving for the possession and enjoyment of it, but in part also as the end and perfection of this practical recognition and this striving and in general as the soul or forma of all further activity of the will. In other words, it [that is, this proper life of the will] consists in love, inasmuch as love, by “being well pleased” in the objectively good and beautiful, binds the lover to the good and beautiful, plunges him into it, forms him into it, and thus penetrates and fills him with it, so that it grows together with him, as it were, and, as a principle immanent to him, propels him to act and strive, filling him with a flow of joy and pleasure. This life of the will, however, is completely pure and perfect only if the will does not merely strive to draw the beloved to itself and into itself as something belonging to its subjective perfection, but attaches itself to it so that it goes to it, unites itself with it and gives itself to it and rests in it.5

As odd as it may initially seem to those of us who emphasize the prodigal unconditionality of the divine love, theologians within the Latin tradition have also spoken of the divine love as complacentia. Kronen and Reitan explain:

For in much traditional Christian theology, God’s love consists in more than the sheer benevolence (or agape) directed to creatures irrespective of their intrinsic worth. God also has what has traditionally been called a ‘love of complacency’—that is, a love directly responsive to the merits of its object, one which delights in what is intrinsically good. In addition to being a bestower of value, God is also a respecter of it. He recognizes and honours the intrinsic worth that something possesses because of what it is. While God’s benevolence is directed outward, creatively bringing goods into existence and bestowing further goods on what He has created, His complacent love is directed to anything with intrinsic worth—especially the most intrinsically valuable thing of all: God Himself.6

Complacentia begins with God himself: God loves himself with a complacent love because he is the supreme Good and thus infinitely worthy of love. This is not selfish or egotistical love but truthful recognition of who he is—infinite, illimited, overflowing, consummate Goodness. Scheeben elaborates on God’s self-love as an affection of the will:

God contains formally only such affections as are determined by his own Essence. The Divine Will cannot be affected by anything external; hence, if by analogy with ourselves we distinguish many affections in God, they ought not to be conceived as really distinct or conflicting, but as virtually contained in the one act of the Divine Substance. Between the affections which have God Himself for their immediate object, such as complacency in His goodness, love, benevolence, and joy, it is almost impossible to find even a virtual distinction. The other Divine affections, which have creatures for their object, spring from the former, and are ramifications of the Divine Self-Love. . . . The affection most properly attributable to the Divine Will is delight in what is good and beautiful. The primary object of this Divine complacency is the infinite Goodness and Beauty of the Divine Essence; the secondary objects are its created representations.7

“God loves His own essence,” comment Kronen and Reitan, “not out of narcissism, but because doing so is objectively right.”8 To be morally perfect means acknowledging and responding to that which is intrinsically valuable. Because God’s perfection and worthiness are infinite, “it would be a moral failure on God’s part to fail to love Himself with anything but the most perfect delight and respect for His own merit.”9

Kronen and Reitan then go on to suggest that God especially loves and values his Goodness in its aspect of benevolence:

What renders God worthy of being the object of such limitless respect might well be His boundless agapic love, the unwavering and life-giving benevolence that does not wait on worth. It seems to us that God would not be benevolent unless He valued benevolence. By implication, God would not he benevolent above all else without valuing benevolence—and its most perfect embodiment—above all other moral goods. Hence, one might think that the reason God loves Himself most of all (with the love of complacency) is precisely because He values agapic love above all other things, and because it is God Himself who most perfectly embodies such love.10

This affirmation seems to imply the following: if God wills and respects his benevolence, which is ultimately rooted in the Trinitarian relations, then the failure of his rational creatures to affirm, respect, and glorify his benevolence must be understood as a grievous failure. “God cannot be perfectly benevolent without being angered by such disdain for, or indifference to, perfect benevolence,” remark Kronen and Reitan.11 This is the basis for the traditional claim that sin is an affront to God’s majesty. Just as we become justly angry when someone fails to respect our worth as a person made in the imago Dei, so God becomes justly angry “when he is treated in a manner that falls short of what is fitting with respect to the ultimate source of all good and value.”12

Because God loves himself with complacentia, so he also loves human beings with complacentia:

In traditional Christian theology, all creatures participate in God’s goodness, especially rational creatures who were made in God’s image. . . . God is moved to save the unregenerate because of the nature of the rational creature. The rational creature is, essentially, a being bearing the divine image and ordered towards union with God. The idea is this: God can no more cease to value rational creatures—even if they fall into sin—than He can cease to value Himself, because rational creatures are a reflection of His own essence. Therefore, He is always faithful to them, even when they are unfaithful to Him and must seek to destroy their sin. When rational creatures fail to love God, they fall short or their own nature as beings ordered towards union with God. A respect for what the creature essentially is would thus motivate God to seek to overcome this corruption of it.13

Kronen and Reitan insist that the above must not be understood as claiming that God’s complacent love for rational beings reduces to his complacent love for himself, as if God only loves creatures because he narcissistically sees himself in them. God truly respects the intrinsic goodness and integrity of rational beings. The authors borrow a distinction from the Lutheran scholastic John Gerhard: while creatures are not essentially good (they receive their goodness from God’s creative act), they are intrinsically good:

Although they do not have their goodness from themselves (a se), they do have goodness in themselves (in se). In short, rational creatures have an intrinsic worth—one that demands respect—which cannot be lost so long as they exist. God would fail to respect the very goodness that flows from Himself if He failed to respect the intrinsic worth of creatures.14

Now recall that God is both the supreme good and final end of rational creatures; that is to say, God has created them with a teleology directed to deifying union with himself. As the 19th century theologian Isaak August Dorner observes: “Human nature finds its only true reality, or realization, in union with God.”15 If this is so, if the nature of rational beings is only completed in final salvation, if this nature possesses a value that God respects and must respect, does this not entail that God has a motive to save all rational beings? “In short, God may be bound in duty to save (if He can) even the most recalcitrant of sinners out of respect for their intrinsic worth.”16

The invocation of divine duty at this point surprises. Until I read George MacDonald’s sermon “The Voice of God,” I had never entertained the notion. Yet I can see its logic, though it must be carefully qualified lest it be misunderstood:

However, we must stress that even if God has a duty to save the rational creature (at least if doing so is possible and would not contravene any other moral obligations that God has), such a duty must not be supposed to rest on anything the creature does, but on what it is. God gives the creature what is due to it based on what He has already given it, in effect crowning His own work; but if creatures exist as beings that God has created distinct from Himself, and are not merely facets of God, then it seems God can have duties towards creatures. One such duty may be to save even the worst sinners, just as a father has a duty to save, if he can do so legitimately, even his most erring child—even if he had no duty to bring the child into being in the first place.

The tradition has been reluctant to speak of any duties on the part of God to creatures, holding with [Johann Wilhelm] Baier that God’s distributive justice must ultimately be recalled to benevolence since the creature only exists out of God’s benevolence. Nevertheless, the tradition has also asserted that once God does create, He cannot fail to act in a way that befits the creature’s essence. To do so would be contrary to His own nature. For as He loves Himself He loves all creatures proportionate to their degree of similarity to Him.17

Theologians, both West and East, have avoided any suggestion that God might have duties to his creatures, as this seems to imply that God owes a debt to them. But creatures cannot put God in their debt. They receive everything from God, and God receives nothing from them. God is the infinite plenitude of being. Finite creatures cannot add to his actuality and Triadic bliss. In this respect, the God–creature relationship is asymmetrical. Indebtedness runs only one way. “Even so,” our philosophers conclude, “the rational creature’s intrinsic perfection may still ground in God an obligation based on the respect that any intrinsically valuable thing demands—analogous, perhaps, to the respect a creature owes itself.”18 Or as I might prefer to express it: the Father owes a debt to his Son Jesus Christ to bring rational beings to their eschatological consummation by the Holy Spirit.

Almost as surprising as Kronen and Reitan’s proposal that God owes rational creatures eternal salvation is their invocation of divine wrath as another motive for him to save all. Universalists are often accused of being mawkish sentimentalists, but Kronen and Reitan are too deeply informed by Lutheran scholastics to fall into that hole. They too affirm the divine wrath as a distinct divine attribute, yet one intertwined with God’s complacent love:

Since God’s complacent love for Himself is essentially a love of goodness, it involves love of whatever is good and hatred of whatever is evil. Included in the love of the good is the love of the love of the good, and the hatred of the hatred of (or even indifference to) it. God’s moral nature, then, makes Him truly angry at wickedness. . . . God’s love involves hatred of sin and anger at sinners insofar as they sin. However, unlike the view that treats this wrath as a justification for damnation, [the doctrine of universal salvation] asserts that God’s will to save all flows from His judgment against wickedness (as well as from other motives). For it is only when all are saved that wickedness is stamped out entirely.19

God’s agapic love and complacent love must therefore be thought together in the simplicity of the divine essence, while maintaining their distinction. On the one hand, we must affirm that God is the source and bestower of the goodness he has bestowed on rational creatures. His benevolence is not responsive to their inherent worth but graciously grants them inherent worth. And because the divine benevolence is not conditioned by the worth he gives, God will respond to the wickedness of rational creatures by “bestowing good where it is lacking”

—that is, by seeking to redeem the wicked, since their wickedness is a vitiation that fundamentally impedes their capacity to enjoy the ultimate human good; namely, union with God. Hence, no conception of divine benevolence towards the creature could include any sort of indulgence towards sin, but would be committed to its eradication—something that can only be achieved through salvation.20

On the other hand, we should also affirm that God complacently values and rejoices in the intrinsic goodness of his rational creatures and hates the sin that blocks final salvation. In his complacentia, the authors maintain, God will therefore annihilate the evil that enslaves his people and bring all to the deifying vision of his essential Goodness, Truth, and Beauty. For that is what eschatological salvation is—the clear and direct experience of the divine essence.

Recall premise #1: “Perfect complacent love is an essential divine attribute.”

Footnotes

[1] John Kronen and Eric Reitan, God’s Final Judgment: A Comparative Philosophical Case for Universalism (2011), p. 131.

[2] Ibid., pp. 71-72.

[3] Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologia I-II 28.2. See Michael S. Sherwin, By Knowledge & By Love (2005), chap. 3.

[4] Sherwin, p. 77.

[5] Quoted by Michael Walstein, “Covenant and the Union of Love in M. J. Scheeben’s Theology of Marriage,” Letter and Spirit, 3 (2007): 139-140.

[6] K&R, pp. 36-37.

[7] Joseph Wilhelm and Thomas B. Scannell, A Manual of Theology: Based on Scheeben’s “Dogmatik”, 4th ed. (1904), pp. 233-234.

[8] Ibid., p. 37. I found the following short meditation in a little book I found online: “Holy Scripture tells us, God is charity (1 Jn 4,16). It does not say, ‘in God there is charity,’ but ‘God is charity,’ that is, everything in God is love, God is essentially love. Now love, even human love, is a desire for what is good; to love is to desire the good of another; it is the act by which the will is drawn toward the good. In God, the infinite Being, love is an infinite will for good, and is directed toward infinite good, the divine essence which God possesses and in which He delights. This love, which is God, is therefore an infinite, complacent love of His own infinite goodness. Yet His embrace extends even to the creatures whom He creates, to communicate to them His own goodness and happiness. Infinite charity, which is God, turns therefore to creatures, bringing them into existence by an act of love which does not stop at the limited good they possess, but brings them back to the infinite good, the Trinity. In other words, God creates and loves them for His own glory.” Fr Gabriel of St Mary Magdalene, Divine Intimacy (1963), “First Sunday of Advent.”

[9] Ibid.

[10] Ibid.

[11] Ibid.

[12] Ibid., p. 38. More on the divine wrath below.

[13] Ibid., 39.

[14] Ibid.

[15] Quoted, ibid.

[16] Ibid., pp. 39-40

[17] Ibid., p. 40

[18] Ibid. Cf. DBH’s formulation: “An intrinsic rational desire for God would constitute a ‘right’ to God’s grace only if our nature were our own achievement. Yes, in a sense God does manifestly owe his creatures grace, within the terms of the gift of creation; but that is a debt he owes ultimately only to his own goodness.” David Bentley Hart, You Are Gods (2022), p. 9.

[19] K&R, pp. 41-42.

[20] Ibid., p. 41.

(Go to “Naturally Ordered to Beatific Vision”)

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17 Responses to Kronen and Reitan: An Argument from Divine Complacent Love

  1. stmichael71 says:

    Three comments:

    [1] The argument is not substantially different from the prior argument. And it is poorly stated, I think (like the last argument), since the question is really not the nature of divine attributes but the existence of good reasons for allowing evil – this is identical with the question whether there could be a distinction between God’s antecedent and consequent wills (whether God can simultaneously will that all are saved, in one sense, while also merely permitting that some are not). Thus, the question is not whether there is “an internal impelling cause not to will” X, but whether the permission of a certain kind of evil, namely the possibility of damnation, is compatible with God willing what is for the best for all His creatures. So, if we just take the argument as it stands, it is as circular as the other in assuming that God has duties to ensure the salvation of all (implicit in the move from 6 to 7). I see no good reason that He has such duties, however, and (below) think we have theological data that shows He does not.

    Ans, as I’ve noted repeatedly, I think it illustrates that there is nothing substantially different in this conversation from the conversations around the problem of evil. If you think the problem of evil lacks a solution, or cannot be answered, then you should think we cannot know that universalism is true.

    [2] The argument presupposes Pelagianism is true, in supposing that the Beatific Vision is naturally or by right due to individuals, as you point out in your discussion above of God’s duties toward His creatures. That is why they can conclude that God failing to achieve that for individuals would be to fail to give them what is their natural due. That is epitomized in the move between premise 6: “Every rational creature is naturally ordered towards union with God” and premise 7 “A necessary prerequisite for a rational creature to achieve union with God is that it experiences the beatific vision.” It is true that human beings are naturally made for union with God, but the Beatific Vision is not a natural mode of union for humans – it is for the creature to share God’s own knowledge of Himself and is therefore natural only to God. If it were natural to creatures to know God as He knows Himself, they would be God.

    So, that’s the problem with saying God has duties to ensure the Beatific Vision is given to each rational creature.

    [3] And we *could* generate a very close parallel to the former parody argument from this one:

    [7*. A necessary prerequisite for a rational creature to achieve union with God is that sin be eliminated.

    10*. It is not metaphysically impossible for God to bring it about that every rational creature not sin, and there are some means God could use to do this that are morally permissible.
    11*. Therefore, every rational creature will not sin (8, 9, 10).
    ….]

    But I want to propose a different parody this time, in light of the latter discussion of whether God would be “…would be committed to [evil’s] eradication.” Since some people think that my former parody argument was bad because it is metaphysically impossible for God to achieve the good of creatures without sin, the following assumes it is metaphysically impossible for God to achieve the good of creatures without sin.

    1. Perfect complacent love is an essential divine attribute.
    2**. If (1) then there is in God an internal impelling cause of’ His willing that every rational creature has the necessary prerequisites for achieving what it is naturally ordered to achieve “and hatred of whatever is evil.”
    3**. Therefore, there is in God an internal impelling cause of His willing that every rational creature has the necessary prerequisites for achieving what it is naturally ordered to achieve and to eliminate all evil.
    4**. If (3**) then, if a creature cannot have its natural prerequisites without evil, God would not will that such creatures exist.
    5**. There is no attribute in God which roots in Him an internal impelling cause to will the existence of any creature – that is, God could do otherwise than create any given creature.
    6**. A prerequisite for the existence of rational creatures is that they sin or at least possibly do so. It is metaphysically impossible for God to bring it about that every rational creature not sin and thus to create rational creatures without bringing about evil.
    7**. If (6**) then – since God cannot bring about rational creatures without sin – God will not create rational creatures.
    8**. Therefore, God creates no rational creatures.

    While it would complicate things, recall that, given God’s benevolence, God wills what is best for every rational creature. But it would be better for each rational creature that it never sinned.

    [We have biblical data for that premise: as Christ says of Judas (Matt. 26:24), “It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.” A universalist Christian cannot dismiss these words. Even on the assumption Judas is eventually saved, and this refers partially to the long and dreadful purgation he must undergo, it would be better for him not to be born than to sin, since it was his sin that merited such purgation.]

    Therefore, if it were impossible for God to create a rational creature that is incapable of sin, it would be better for each rational creature that God not create that rational creature.

    I take the above to illustrate that there is, again, a fundamental problem with arguments such as those given by Kronen and Reitan. The principles they assume about God needing to eliminate evil or do what is best for each individual rational creature generate serious problems for Christian theists. Universalists too should admit that they fail, if they want to maintain theism.

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    • Fr JD, you wrote: “If you think the problem of evil lacks a solution, or cannot be answered, then you should think we cannot know that universalism is true.”

      I believe that the problem of evil is undecidable.

      But because hell does not successfully refer in my universalism, I reject the very premise that hell’s a problem in need of a solution.

      Even if I stipulated that hell was a metaphysical possibility, still it’s WAY too implausible, evidentially, in my experience, due to its moral unintelligibility & aesthetic repugnance.

      Sure, those are nonpropositional aspects, but they’re intergral to any holistic conception regarding our operative knowledge of Who God really is. The quickest routes to theoanthropological incoherence would be to bracket them or, worse, jettison them when proceeding to one’s inescapably informal QEDs.

      It’s one thing to employ a skeptical theism with a mysterian appeal to the weight of the glories to be revealed as will fulfill and surpass the Spirit-informed desires of our hearts as consistent with our quotidian common sense & widely shared moral intuitions & aesthetic sensibilities. It’s quite another thing to tell us parents & grandparents that their long-held evaluative dispositions — that make the very notion of hell absolutely revolting – will be overturned & thrown to the eschato-curb.

      And I know that’s why, among Thomists, Stump and her students are at the forefront of mindfully combining narrative with analytics.

      That’s when I most sense a convergence between our views. The task before us, then, might be for universalists to better tell stories of how painful purgatory can be. For their part, many of you majoritarians are redefining hell in terms way less excruciating than as classically received. I appreciate some of your own efforts in that regard and especially E. Stump’s. Perhaps all this collective nuancing will one day leave us all with the very same eschato-anthropology. One can only imagine.

      Thanks for contributing.

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  2. Tom says:

    K&R: “Even so…the rational creature’s intrinsic perfection may still ground in God an obligation based on the respect that any intrinsically valuable thing demands—analogous, perhaps, to the respect a creature owes itself.”

    I think this sort of talk is disastrous.

    The effort you have to put into qualifying such talk is not worth the point, since the essential point – God’s unfailing, infinite, unconditional love for all – secures the final end of all creatures in God. We do not have ‘intrinsic value’ that ‘demands’ that God love us. God doesn’t see our value and then, moved and motivated BY it, then love us.

    DBH’s comment…

    “An intrinsic rational desire for God would constitute a ‘right’ to God’s grace only if our nature were our own achievement. Yes, in a sense God does manifestly owe his creatures grace, within the terms of the gift of creation; but that is a debt he owes ultimately only to his own goodness.”

    Which is no ‘debt’ at all. God owes no debt to himself to be who and what he is. Hart’s right though in this, that we are lovingly embraced into the divine (self)relations, which are the only real value and worth. All else is a participation in that. Our value, to the extent we may speak of it at all, JUST IS the love God has for himself in us (Rom 8.15 – we are given the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry ‘Abba, Father'”), and that love JUST IS ‘who and what God is’, not who and what he has a duty to be or to perform.

    Happily, for the record, universalist talk of God owing us love, or our intrinsic worth constituting a demand within God that he love and save us, has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the truth of universalism.

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    • stmichael71 says:

      Your explanation seems to have a lacuna.

      Unless you think God cannot be God without human beings, God’s benevolence or the Trinitarian relations do not make it that God could do nothing other than create us, let alone save us, so it cannot be merely truths about God’s own benevolence or facts about the immanent life of God that necessitate universalism. God can be Good and benevolent without us existing. There is then no relation of God to humanity, and so His benevolence does not demand that He act in certain ways toward human beings, except under the condition that human beings exist.

      That is why Reitan and Kronen appeal to facts about our *essence* as what affects the way in which God must act toward us benevolently. If God creates human beings, then He must act in ways X, Y, and Z. So, yes, they are arguing that God would be unjust if He did not save all His creatures. Justice involves debt, however.

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      • stmichael71 says:

        [Sorry, that last line was incomplete: “Justice involves debt, however, in some general sense. You cannot ‘give each their due’ unless things are due/owed.”]

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      • Tom says:

        Fr Rooney: Unless you think God cannot be God without human beings, God’s benevolence or the Trinitarian relations do not make it that God could do nothing other than create us…

        Tom: True. Creation’s existence is gratuitous to the divine trinitarian plenitude as such.

        Fr Rooney: …so it cannot be merely truths about God’s own benevolence or facts about the immanent life of God that necessitate universalism.

        Tom: It necessitates it given its existence (even if the former, God’s plenitude as love, is metaphysically necessary and the latter, the world, is metaphysically contingent).

        Fr Rooney: God can be Good and benevolent without us existing.
        Tom: Of course. But we also cannot suppose he is, or can be, other than the Good given our existence.

        Fr Rooney: There is then no relation of God to humanity…

        Tom: This is beside the point. It is not a ‘real’ relation of God to humanity that makes his ‘being the Good’ unfailing true in and for any contingent reality. It remains the case that who and what God is *is* the case without fail.

        Fr Rooney: …and so His benevolence does not demand that He act in certain ways toward human beings, except under the condition that human beings exist.

        Tom: No universalist need claim that God’s benevolence ‘makes demands’ of God. There is no metaphysical or moral ‘demand’ that ‘makes’ God love. Love is what he is in the infinite act of his own self-existent triune fullness, and he remains this whether or not he creates. But there is no possible way to derive a moral obligation regarding God’s loving us from the claim that God, being the Good as such, will unconditionally love what he creates, should he create.

        Fr Rooney: That is why Reitan and Kronen appeal to facts about our *essence* as what affects the way in which God must act toward us benevolently.

        Tom: I’m happy to agree with you that this particular line of argument is (as I said above) disastrous. If *all* you want to do is point out a weakness in the claim that our *essences* “affect the way God must act toward us,” have at it, though I don’t suppose K&R mean what you take them to me. But if they do, they’d be wrong. However, if you’re trying to suggest (which it seems you are everywhere) that “universalists” all make this mistake because they suppose God’s loving human beings entails the eventually salvation of all, then you’re being intellectually dishonest.

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  4. “complacentia highlights the recognition of goodness in another person, which in turn evokes desire for and enjoyment of the beloved.”
    This assumes there is goodness nevertheless left in a person. A person who turns from evil and towards good will have his evil erased as he is filled with goodness. A person who turns from good toward evil will have his goodness eroded, much like the Ring Wraiths and the Dark Lord Sauron in Tolkien’s narratives or the Myrddraal and the Forsaken in Robert Jordan’s narratives, etc. Undergoing such decay, goodness can no longer be recognized. A person or a devil given over to sin erases anything good left in him. Thus, why revealed theology indicates Hell is prepared for the Devil and his angels. In open rebellion, they cast out all of their goodness, severing themselves from being in the communion of the saints, and so they await their final condemnation. This is not a pessimistic view. This is revealed theology. Those who have turned against holiness cannot tolerate that presence. They will experience even holiness as unbearable suffering. There is no escape from God for all things will be with Him. But those who have prepared themselves for holiness will experience the fire as warmth. Those who turn from holiness will experience the fire as unbearable suffering.

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    • Fr Aidan Kimel says:

      I like your examples but disagree with your conclusion. Even orcs retain an element of goodness (namely existence itelf). No matter the depth of sinfulness, human beings can never lose their ontological identity as made in the image of God. But even if you’re right, K&R’s argument presumes the power of omnipotent Love to raise the spiritually dead and restore freedom where there was none.

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      • Tom says:

        Exactly. This is the point implied in evil’s being understood to be privation of the good of being. There is no point at which ‘that which is’ (that which participates in being by existing at all) can become so privated by evil that its being/existence is not good and all is privation without remainder. To ‘be’ at all is to ‘be open’ to God as the possibility of one’s being (being loved by God, called/invited Godward, and empower at whatever minimal level, to surrender to God and ‘move’ toward one’s final end in God).

        So when LonelyWanderer says, “Undergoing such decay, goodness can no longer be recognized. A person or a devil given over to sin erases anything good left in him,” the universalist (well, a universalist like Gregory of Nyssa, or today DBH, and others, though perhaps not all got the memo) will disagree because he/she realizes it is not possible for any creature to ‘be’ (exist) at all and also be reduced to unqualified privation or evil in the sense LW means.

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        • Tom says:

          Wow. LW, there was no malice or slander in my response. I expressed honestly how I understood you. I may miss your meaning, but not maliciously so. I’m not sure what it would even mean to ‘maliciously misunderstand’ someone. But I will make it a point to stay clear from engaging you at all.

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      • Henrique Assunção says:

        How to recconcile the good nature of orcs with the killing that occurs in the books? Curious of your reading of the evil creatures in the Legendarium.

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        • Fr Aidan Kimel says:

          Haha. If Tolkien couldn’t answer that question, surely you don’t expect me to. 😜

          But for many decades now I have been a member of the “The Only Good Orc is a Dead Orc Society.” I have also given up trying to reconcile my belief that orcs are truly evil with my theological commitments. 😎

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    • QUOTE: “This is revealed theology. Those who have turned against holiness cannot tolerate that presence. They will experience even holiness as unbearable suffering. There is no escape from God for all things will be with Him.”

      Revealed to whom and by whom to that person? The same people who swear the Orthodox teaching of the “tollhouses of souls” is a true teaching and expect all Orthodox to claim it? Remember, Sacred Scripture, which IS the final arbiter of our theological claims, states that even the devil himself can appear as an angel of light.

      They cannot tolerate the presence of light just as the sick eye cannot tolerate the sunlight. But that does not mean that the sufferer chooses to be in that condition forever. Kronen and Reitan, along with Thomas Talbot, address this issue nicely. Let me put in my non-philosophical .02 worth here:

      Coming into truth is a long process and it varies for every person, but the end result is the same, that we come out of blindness and come to see clearly what was hidden to us before. The sinner who loves sin suddenly comes to see it for what it really is, sees the ontological truth of his own being, and is turned from falsehood to truth. In my own case, it took many years of long, hard living, during which time I HATED God, HATED the Bible, and HATED Christians, before I came to the point where sin was no longer a delicious morsel in my mouth, but the most destructive and bitter tasting thing I could imagine.

      The burden is on YOU and all others who claim that there is no escape from God, neither turning from Him, to PROVE that, and since you have not been on the other side of death (nor have any of the so-called “visionaries” who claim this) then there is no proof that God locks people into an irreversible state in which He refuses their cries for mercy and help.

      Had God done this to me, seeing how I despised the good and love evil, I would be long dead and gone. I am thankful that divine mercy ignores evil while continuing for all eternity to seek only the good of the beloved, which is all of us.

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      • Fr Aidan Kimel says:

        You have made your point. I now declare this discussion of the merits of the Christian faith now closed.

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      • Your second to last paragraph is exactly my point – you are assuming that there exist those who have turned from God who are crying out for mercy from Him to begin with. As mentioned, revealed theology shows that there *WERE* agents who stood in the presence of God and yet rejected Him and the fires of Hell are prepared for those agents. Are you contradicting Our Lord? You are assuming that God is the one at fault. That is exactly how an atheist thinks. But thanks for the comment. I was meaning to write a response to at least one of your articles.

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  5. Fr JD, re natural ends, obviously, not everyone accepts the artificial extrinsicism of the natura pura approach, which strikes us as a mere abstraction from our concrete experience. So, we can’t appositely counter your argument using your terms, which we don’t accept.

    Our concrete experience includes – not only the universal divine omnipresence, as in even all shadows & vestiges of God, but – the divine indwelling in His every image & likeness, i.e. all rational creatures.

    Since His indwelling being is to our intellect as form to matter, the means of accessing a superintelligible operative knowledge of God via the beatific vision are gifted us, personally & gratuitously. Those means are precisely ordered to & efficaciously effect our perichoretic unitive ends.

    That our natures are analogous doesn’t stand in the way. Neither divine necessity nor human exigencies are involved, only what’s fitting & just, i.e. the Lord’s goodness & mercy, God’s love.

    He’d thereby effect unitive perichoretic endsThat indwelling influences

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